《岳陽樓記》 范仲淹

薛湃

原帖由 海外逸士 于 2009-11-26 23:03:00 发表
我是不是像在開記者招待會﹖

您这人，真是无时不刻忘不了自我感觉良好。

薛湃

哈哈，让理论们打架去吧
俺只对海外君左推右挡的行为艺术感兴趣。

自娱自乐

原帖由 海外逸士 于 2009-11-26 23:03:00 发表

直接說銜在嘴裡﹐在英文中讀上去顯得幼稚。

前後兩個重複是為了對稱平衡。

浩浩湯湯﹐在這裡只指水勢的廣大。這是詞彙的偏義組合。在湖裡﹐水不會很湍急
的。

我是不是像在開記者招待會﹖

1. hehehe, do you reckon this is your logical reasoning?

As one of your readers, I believe I am entitled to know how, by what means, this lake holds the distant hills, for I unfortunately don't read damn a single Chinese word,hehehe

Dongting Lake, which holds distant hills and swallows the Yangtze River, looking so huge and vast, and extending so wide and boundless (or: so vast and so boundless).

How do we know the distant hills are held by mouth or hands or whatever?



2. 予觀夫巴陵勝狀，在洞庭一湖。銜遠山，吞長江，浩浩湯湯，橫無際涯

Dongting Lake, which holds distant hills and swallows the Yangtze River, looking so huge and vast, and extending so wide and boundless (or: so vast and so boundless).

浩浩湯湯, 橫無際涯 = vast and fast, or if you like you can say 'so vast and so fast, that is it, no need to say one more word at all in terms of your translation theory or principles.


3. 在湖裡﹐水不會很湍急的。

How do you know?

Dongting Lake swallows Yangtze River, actually the author did say 湯湯 which means 汤 shāng 大水急流的样子，如“河水～～”，“浩浩～～”。

By the way, you are always adamant that "One has to translate exactly what a poet says."

Now let us take a look at what 橫無際涯 means.


横无际涯：héng wú jì yá


　　解释：宽广无边。


　　横：广阔　际：边际


　　出自：《岳阳楼记》——衔远山，吞长江，浩浩荡荡，横无际涯；朝晖夕阴，气象万千。


　　整句解释：它连接着远方的山脉，吞吐着长江的水流；浩浩荡荡，宽广无边；早晴晚阴，气象万千。

宽广无边 ----- yes, in terms of transliteration, word by word to map, your 'wide and boundless' is right, however, it is literature, so do we have to do so? In fact, A word like 'vast' should do, I reckon, according to what you always preaches to us.

Vast = adj., vast·er, vast·est.

• Very great in size, number, amount, or quantity.
• Very great in area or extent; immense.
• Very great in degree or intensity.

Quote:

說明﹕不管寫作還是翻譯﹐不管散文還是詩歌﹐在達意的前提下﹐要簡潔。特別是翻譯。同一個意思﹐譯得句子越長越容易﹐越短越難。句子一長﹐押韻也容易。句子越短﹐押韻就難了。如果認為每行詩都必須用完整句來翻譯﹐這是認識誤區。不但詩可以用不完整句﹐連小說裡都可以用不完整句。只要達意即可。

一個理論性探討﹕枯藤老樹昏鴉。作者只列出了三樣東西﹐而沒有交代這三樣東西
之間的位置關係。這是留給讀者以想象的空間。作為讀者可以想象藤掛在樹上﹐鴉
停在樹枝上。如果要想象成鴉在樹的附近飛翔﹐也沒有這麼不可以。但作為譯者﹐
只要把作者怎麼寫﹐忠實地譯出來就夠了。不應該﹐也不必要把自己的想象加進自己的譯文裡﹐要想為讀者作個解釋。這樣做﹐就剝奪了讀者想象的空間或權利。

Unquote

4. 我是不是像在開記者招待會﹖

hehehe, well, as I said before, you are not short of sense of humour. Good on you mate!

自娱自乐

My final words on this topic.    ‘(so) vast and (so) fast' Vs 'huge and vast, wide and boundless'

Do you think my tentative version is more concise and precise than yours or not?  Yours virtually means 'superfluous'!

Please don't tell me yours is literature and mine is not, hehehe

Many thanks for your time!

自娱自乐

原帖由 薛湃 于 2009-11-25 13:32:00 发表
再与海外逸士商榷：

一、如果您熟悉古文，并了解《岳阳楼记》的写作背景，应当知道“政通人和”的意思不可能是the political situation was favorable and the relationship between people was harmonious。这跟“白话意思”无关。“政”是“政事”而不是“政治形势”，小小一个巴陵郡，跟政治形势有何相干？

赞同薛君对‘政通人和’的解读。

无心剑

佩服自娱兄，受益匪浅。

自娱自乐

原帖由 无心剑 于 2009-11-27 6:14:00 发表
佩服自娱兄，受益匪浅。

呵呵呵，无心君，和逸士交流也是一种历练，挺有意思的，呵呵呵

其实这个‘衔’是‘衔接’的意思，对不？嗬嗬嗬

Of course, to hold (the) distant hills in its mouth does sound a bit weird.

但是 我认为光一个‘hold' 没能完全体现出原文所要表达的意思，特别是依照逸士的翻译理论。

衔远山，吞长江。----- holds distant hills and swallows Yangtze River, 呵呵呵，把山衔在嘴里，还要吞吃长江，呵呵呵，好一个气吞山河的壮观景象，呵呵呵

说实话，hold 和 swallow 这么连用似乎也有语义重复之嫌，实际上很简单，就是 reaches - 表达洞庭湖的“宽” (the) distant hills and swallows - 表现洞庭湖的“大” Yangzts River.